My shooting partner and I host a long range BPCR match on his ranch. Last summer, in practice, he used his 336 Marlin.30-30 with 20 inch barrel mounted with Lyman 17A front and a Hoch Long Range tang sight to consistantly hit a 4'x7' steel buffalo at a bit over a thousand yards. Once he got the elevation and cross wind worked out, the hits were consistently 7 or 8 for 10 shots. We did not try for a group as the wind was up and required 20-24 minutes of correction. The load was 30 grains of R15 under a 175 grain Lyman 311041 bullet shot as cast with aluminum FreeChex gas check. He hit the target 15 or so times before we ran out of ammo. 170gr bullet in a smokeless charged 30-30 with a 24' barrel.
Buy Winchester Model 94 Tang Sight Factory replacement gun parts, accessories and gunsmithing service on most manufactures including Browning,.
With accuracy?Personally I wouldn't shoot at anything beyond the 150 mark with one. I've tried to tighten my non-scoped 1894s long barrel groupings up at the 200 yard once. I do reload so switching to different powder recipes in hopes of finding its sweet spot (best placement) at that 200 distance never happened for me. Great little 100-150 yard cartridge for pushing cast boolits thru paper though. Out beyond the 150 mark I consider this cartridge very marginal with whatever boolit tip is used.
Cast or the J-word. Especially so on large game animals. Just my opinion nothing more. I would question any gun at 600 yards for hunting.At Ridgway R&P Club, a very skilled shooter will be sitting at the bench on the firing line in the AM and before dark with a Lazzeroni Tomahawk waiting on doe days for one to cross the end of the range in the 1000+ yard range. Mel said - 'A head shot only!'
I have personally witnessed Mel put a hole in the middle of an egg at 987 yds.the Grand Canyon in eastern PA, there are a group of bench rest shooters that set up during deer season. The distance across the gorge is 1000+ meters where they set upstated this thread for target accuracy not hunting killing power though the bullet can be used for hunting. I'm going to let the poll run a few more days and then post my 1st range experience with a GG Pb bullet in a 30-30. With iron sights.
Bullet drop with a 3030 at 5 or 600 yards could probably be measured in feet, 3, 4, 5 feet or more. Your about halfway there. Ditto for wind drift, especially in areas where 600 yard shots are actually possible or merited.
Practical accuracy of the openended type you reference specifies repeatability and feasibility. We all know the guy who can bullseye quarters at 200 yards, but they are few and far between. A lot of people loose quite a bit of money from assuming things like that. There are some real riflemen, not just a few, around who can shoot much better than you assume.My answer: Most of the 170 gr. Bullets are flatnose and have a BC of a little over 0.30. With those ballistics and manual data, the bullet goes transonic at around 500 yards which is the point where most bullets have trouble being accurate any more. So mine is 500 yds.
Or let me choose the bullet or boolit and i'll change the results. Bullet drop with a 3030 at 5 or 600 yards could probably be measured in feet, 3, 4, 5 feet or more. Your about halfway there. Ditto for wind drift, especially in areas where 600 yard shots are actually possible or merited. Practical accuracy of the openended type you reference specifies repeatability and feasibility. We all know the guy who can bullseye quarters at 200 yards, but they are few and far between. A lot of people loose quite a bit of money from assuming things like that.
There are some real riflemen, not just a few, around who can shoot much better than you assume.My answer: Most of the 170 gr. Bullets are flatnose and have a BC of a little over 0.30. With those ballistics and manual data, the bullet goes transonic at around 500 yards which is the point where most bullets have trouble being accurate any more. So mine is 500 yds. Or let me choose the bullet or boolit and i'll change the results.I've also seem riflemen do amazing things on measured rifle ranges at long range but in the bush couldn't hit a damn thing.I would seriously pay to see a riflemen regulary hit a 10' gong at 500mtrs with a 30/30 in the field using field positions,I think a few would cover it,also any riflemen shooting at that range at a live animal with that type of firearm needs his. kicked. My Father, who's about 90 has hunted deer since he was a boy growing up in Nthrn Mn putting meat on the table for his family.
He told me in the 30's he shot a deer with a 30 wcf single shot (don't know the make) in the head at an insane range. It was the last day and figured he had nothing to lose to just raise the barrel up and volley one at him. After he squeezed the trigger, it dropped. After walking some 500 paces he found the deer dead and couldn't find where he had hit it. After some looking he found it was hit in the top of the head.
He said he would never try it again, he didn't think he was lucky to hit it. It was an unlucky deer! I was lucky to have a man like him show me how to shoot. Steady and squeeze.
I've also seem riflemen do amazing things on measured rifle ranges at long range but in the bush couldn't hit a damn thing.I would seriously pay to see a riflemen regulary hit a 10' gong at 500mtrs with a 30/30 in the field using field positions,I think a few would cover it,also any riflemen shooting at that range at a live animal with that type of firearm needs his. kicked.
PatI think you missed the question:30-30 Maximum Distance With AccuracyWhat distance can one shoot a 170gr bullet in a smokeless charged 30-30 with a 24' barrel. With accuracy?Nothing about rifle style nor sights nor bench or field position were elaborated on, just accuracy. Just accuracy. Assuming things gets you in trouble.:mrgreen. Aside from needing a definition of 'accurate', there's no such thing as being 'inherently' accurate.
If the case design is such that it'll propel a particular bullet at its optimal-for-accuracy velocity, then the remaining factors are quality of the barrel, sighting equipment, launch platform (action/stock and bedding of same), and operator skill. A.30/30 cartridge is as 'accurate' as a.30/06,.300 magnum,.223,.270, ad nauseum.The whole question of how far out there a.30/30 is accurate leaves me scratching my head- it raises more questions than answers, and is in and of itself unanswerable. The bullet remaining stable will be about it.you need mass,rotation,and velocity to do that.if you purpose built the rifle and used brass to take the pressures.you could easily extend the range of the 30-30 to be in the same class as a 308.simply because you would be duplicating it's velocitys with the same bullet.they are both 7.62 x 51 rounds after all.it is just case capacity and working pressure separating them.fix the pressure end of the equasion and thngs start to equal out.the 30-30 has just about the same case capacity of the 300 savage. OK, here's my FIRST experience with maximum distance with accuracy shooting a 30-30:Here's what I read in the 1949 Ideal Handbook:The Ideal 311413. Squibb gas-check bullet for the Springfield and other 30-06 rifles. Perhaps the most accurate gas-check bullet yet produced. Excellent for target practice up to 600ydsNote the words.
I know I can hit a 10' target easily, and an 8' plate with some setup, at 300 yards. That's a 35 remington pet load with a 116 grain bullet trucking along at 2900 feet per second. I suppose this may translate to some 30/30 loads, but I still stand on my opinion of 200 yards, as imo it should be assumed that iron sights are being used. When questions like this get asked, its far easier to assume real world bare bones variables, rather than getting into the whole 'well. If you put a 15 power scope on it with a ransom rest, in a vacuum on the moon with 1/6th earths gravity.' Iron sights and factory loads I say.
Just my opinion though, your mileage will vary. Using a Winchester 94 with a 20' barrel and iron sights, firing the Lee 170grFNGC, back when I had access to a 1500yd range and nothing except guns and ammo to spend my money on, I used to shoot 'bipedal varmint' paper silhouettes out to 650yds, which is where my groups fell apart fast. Out to 550, I could keep 9/10 somewhere on the paper. Plastic gallon milkjugs were 10/10 out to 350, and fell to 9/10 at 400, and coke cans were 9/10 at 250. I have taken jackrabbits with that rifle out to 325yds, but my longest shot on a deer was 175yds, and I don't think I would do that today unless it was in perfect conditions. Now before someone rips me apart here, I do not say I like the idea of long range 'hunting', and limit my shots to much closer ranges than I used to. But the above os just to say that some very good shooting is possible with the 'outdated' (or so I've been told).30-30, plenty of time, and ammo.
Now when I say plenty of time, I spent about a full month basically camped out at the range starting in mid April til mid May '05 leaving only long enough to go resupply on ammo from my apartment and when I needed a shower. Not having had access to a range with anything beyond 300 since then, I have no delusions of being capable of that kind of shooting anymore, but I know the rifle would do it back then, and there is nothing special about it to differentiate it from any other.30-30. Just a old, but great, rifle I picked up used a month after I turned old enough to go get it.Now getting to this point back then involved a lot of 'hail Mary' shots that I wouldn't have tried if I hadn't had a mountain for a backstop.
My hits were few and far between til I started getting a good idea of drop at various ranges, which wasn't as bad as I thought, but was worse than I was used to with my.30-06. I have a scoped Marlin 336 that I feel will deliver acceptable hunting accuracy @ 150+ yards, also have a Trapper with aperture receiver sights that I feel comfortable out to 75 yards if I were to take it hunting.
Must admit I'm a limiting factor, each rifle in the hands of a better shooter are capable of double that. I don't consider the 30-30 a long range hunting rifle but that doesn't mean it's not capable of doing so effectively. I practice offhand rifle shooting so I have a pretty good idea of my capabilities, I generally pass on longer shots even if I can make it easily on paper. I think you missed the question:30-30 Maximum Distance With AccuracyWhat distance can one shoot a 170gr bullet in a smokeless charged 30-30 with a 24' barrel. With accuracy?Nothing about rifle style nor sights nor bench or field position were elaborated on, just accuracy.
Just accuracy. Assuming things gets you in trouble.:mrgreen:Maybe so, but for me anyway the 30-30 is a hunting rifle cartridge, for some of us the definitive hunting rifle. I, for one, often forget what a fine cartridge it can be in an accurate rifle. The original post seems to be a request for the longest distance at which you've achieved reasonable accuracy with a.30-30. I loaded up some 170 gn GC bullets from a Lee standard production mold, lubed with BAC, over 10 gns of Hercules Green Dot. A friend shot them at a 200 yd target through his Marlin 336 with a Tasco 6x scope. I retrieved the target.
Ten of them in a group of about two inches. He held at the the top ring of the target (don't remember specifically what it was), and the holes were about sixteen inches below the point of sight in the scope. I would have thought it to be an accident, if it had not been for the reload and more rounds than the magazine holds. It CAN happen. I would feel comfortable at 150 better at a 100. Longest shot I ever shot at a deer (doe) and connected (One shot kill) was a couple of years ago with my Marlin GG 45/70 a ranged by two range finders 190 yards. I felt comfortable with that shot as I was using a rest and the gun is scoped with a 1.5x4.
Weaver scope. I also ahead of time figured out the trajectory and the hold over. I was sighted in at 100 yards. With the load I was using I held a foot over her back to get it into the lungs heart area and it went through the front leg and through the heart and out the other side.
If I would have had my Winchester Model 94 I don't know if I would have taken the shot or not. I consider both my lever guns woods rifles.
I have a Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 with a scout scope set up for long shots. Not to be agrumentative, but I didn't take accuracy to mean MOA either.
![Venier Sight For 30/30 Win Venier Sight For 30/30 Win](/uploads/1/2/5/5/125535858/167465761.jpg)
We have all at some point tried shooting groups 'good enough' for a certain application, and accepted them. Like the posts above mentioned, manu consider plate size groups to be good enough for deer. What is good enough for deer isn't good enough for squirrel. When I mentioned shooting in my post earlier about playing at longer ranges by shooting at inanimate objects such as cans and milkjugs, ANY HIT on them was good enough, even though the vast majority weren't MOA, but it allowed me to practice and improve and test what I was capable of with that gun back then.
All I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between practical accuracy and target accuracy. While I WANT MOA accuracy with all my rifles, I dont NEED it with most because I can't maintain that level in the field from field positions. Take my muzzleloader for example, even though it isn't a.30-30. I have taken several deer with it out to 110 yds with a round ball, and I can do 4' at 100yds with it. That isn't even close to MOA, but it is accurate enough that I have never had a problem trusting it to work very well out to 100yds on deer or hogs-and it has never failed me. So for that purpose, within the 100yd range limitation, that rifle is what I consider accurate for its intended purpose. It's not accurate enough for me to trust it past 125yds however in a hunting situation.
A.30-30 levergun can be exceptionally accurate, particularly for short strings of fire, provided a little work is done to the junk hanging off of the barrel. I've never found the rear locking bolt to be an accuracy disadvantage for practical shooting.
My Marlin.30-30 routinely turns in half inch, five shot groups at 100 yard from the bench with a 4X scope, at the high end of medium velocity with cast boolits, but it isn't by accident. My.35 Remington is close behind. It won't keep ten at a time there, though, due to barrel heat. Many leverguns are severely disabled by forearm, band, and mag tube bind.Gear. I answered the poll at 200 yards as my absolute limit for hunting accuracy.For a benched iron sighted rifle and targets as John Boy sorta defined for his original question I figure I could dial in my 32 Special to hit a 2 foot square piece of plywood at quite a distance but can't prove it yet.
I think 350 is doable but 500 just doesn't seem realistic for me. It sure sounds like some fun trying.
Years ago I dialed in a 22 on my uncle's farm for quite a distance and an old sheet of plywood. There was also a time I could hit gophers at the limit of my ability to see them with my 10/22 and a peep.However my personal definition of accuracy is a working rather than target definition. What an accomplished rifleman can do at the range is much different than what can be done under field conditions.
Hunting accuracy is a paper plate, 8 inch circle, with peep sights and sitting, 200 best. In my military days hitting a man size target from prone, say an 18'X24' target, 500 meters often enough to be dangerous.Someday I might buy and set-up a true precision rifle but at 60 it is getting less likely every day. My personal goal for the next year is to tune me and my 32 Special up to shoot 5' groups at 200 paces with a Lyman 66 and cast bullets from my bench, the hood of my Jeep.
For my 303 LE No.5 I just have to try 500 paces with issue sights. I'm planning half a sheet of plywood for my target backing though. The 303 groups ok but the sights are a pain to dial in. Bill, is MOA groups.
With iron sights close enough for you?MOA or less has always been the standard definition. Do you have a different definition? TX, let's try it again. What's your definition of accuracy?. 53% of the poll responses say 200yds is maximum accuracy.
Ideal made a bullet mold that said the 311413 was accurate for target practice to 600yds. I bought the old mold, cast 170gr GC bullets and shot a 7' group at 500 meters with iron sights and a too fat Marbles front sight- just short of 600yds to determine if the Ideal handbook words were BS or Fact. So, I'm a believer the handbook words are fact. w30wcf, a very knowledgeable and accurate 30 caliber shooter says. A 30 caliber in 200-220grs will make it toMOA groups @ 500 meters is 5.46 inches - so I shot a 7' group from rest with iron sights that was 1.54 inches greater than MOA.
Effective hunting accuracy is 2-3 MOA under the conditions I generally hunt in but I feel a rifle that approaches or goes less than MOA is a truly accurate rifle for my skill level and purposes. I try to get 1.5MOA from my leverguns but I don't attempt long shots on game, shots on paper or steel are another matter altogether.
My standard of accuracy depends on the situation and equipment. As I mentioned above I have different expectations and uses for the 30-30's I own.I'm more interested in your expectations and conditions, I think you'll get better input that way. The 30WCF is one of my current projects and I'm more than a little curious about the subject. I know it performs better than is commonly believed but I want to figure out how to get the most from it.Not wanting to hijack the thread, just want to keep it on track.Damn fine shootin, BTW, John Boy! TX, the only game I hunt any more is waterfowl, with a shotgun!:-PWhen I hunted deer, it too was with a shotgun with slugs and buckshot. In PA I used rifles with scopes.
In total, I stopped counting at 35 deer. My last deer was in 1993 using a scoped 308 from a shooting box. From rest, the 8 point buck went down like a sack of potatoes at a measured distance of 268 yds.
With a slug gun I never shot more than 75 yds and buckshot was even less distanceI'm strictly a target and silhouette shooter now with iron sight rifles only - no scopes though I have a 32-40 mounted with a 12X Fecker that I plan to use for target shooting for even smaller groups.My BPCR vernier sight load developments are to knock down silhouettes from 200 to 500 meters and Mid and Long Range target shooting to put as many bullets in the black and hopefully center hits. For example, at 1000yds, the X ring is 10 inches (MOA @ 1000yds) and the 10 ring is 20 inches ( 2x MOA). If I put holes in the X and 10 rings, I'm as happy as the proverbial pig. This is my definition of accuracy - MOA or less at the various target distancesThe whole purpose for starting the thread was to determine what folks felt was the maximum accuracy distance with a 30-30. Not knowing that there is a bullet, the 311413, that can be shot at 600 yds - which I satisfied myself it was accurate to 546yds (500 meters). Close enough to 600 yds. You're correct that the 30-30 is an accurate round at much longer distances than most folks realize.
J-word spitzers and boattails are a waste of technology for most reasonable hunting distances, IMHO. Wish I could see irons well enough to hunt with the rifles I can't bear to mount a scope on. I'd like to give BPCR silhouette shooting a try but so far I can't make it work. On a good day I can have fun with peeps and may eventually happen upon a combo that works but for hunting I can and in most cases will use a scoped rifle.
These days I only hunt hogs and cull deer, hope to use a 30WCF on both soon. Scope comes in handy for carefully evaluating horns or smacking hogs in low light conditions. QUOTE=PAT3The question was a 30/30 in a 24' barrelled rifle with 170grn boolits QUOTENo Sir. He said: What distance can one shoot a 170gr bullet in a smokeless charged 30-30 with a 24' barrel. With accuracy?The normal 170 gr.
Bullet in the 30-30 is a jacketed flat nose. He said bullet, not boolit indicating it was jacketed. Not the 169 gr. 311413 he used. We already knew from w30wcf's posts of what it could do with heavy cast boolits. Weight and nose style effect ballistics greatly. Since this is a levergun topic I won't comment on the accuracy of my Savage Model 340.
What I consider accurate in a 30-30 lever action rifle would be about 3 MOA. Even with a good scope I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to group reliably on paper for money or put meat on the table at any range over 200 yrds.
Since this is a cast bullet forum, I'm also assuming the use of cast bullets. I live in West Texas & many a shot on deer & coyotes have presented themselves beyond this range. The few times I've taken the shot, I found it was a waste of powder, primer, lead, lube, & time. MOD = Minute of Deer (or what ever you are hunting)What I have taken to doing is make a conscious decision as to what distance I can 'Center' hold on deer, and hunt my way to get within that distance with what ever cartridge I carry.range distance is known.
Walking through a clearing, do you REALLY know how far the treeline is? Once the boolit is on its way down, 15yds makes a BIG difference.that is why I like and use 'Point Blank Range' and the gun needs power to kill within that range.for a moose, a PBR for a 3030 has to be somewhere near 300yds. I'd need to check on that for sure.
But a 170gr or heavier 30cal from a 3030 will kill a moose at 300 yds if you put it through the lungs. My son wanted to shoot on Thanksgiving. We had some guns @ the range and I had my 30-30 Mod 94, receiver sight with no appature in it. He ran a couple of filled milk jugs up the hill to about 250 yards, split it with the second shot and hit it 50% of the time as it rolled down to about 200 yards. He prefers to shoot off hand not from a bench, so 50% hits on a milk jug @ unknown ranges with a 311407 copy loaded about 1500 fps standing.
Now he wants the gun not realizing that it is mostly young eyes. John Boy;I recently got my 50s vintage Marlin 336 out of mothballs to try on our recently opened 'short' silhouette range some 175 yards closer than the 'long' version of the same targets.At first my load was the standard accuracy load of 15 grains 4759 and the NEI 178.308. This combination worked very well. I was amazed at how easy it was (compared to the 22RF) to get get hits on our targets right on out to 411 yards.The next distance, of 470 yards to the 'Chicken' was tougher as the short sight radius ganged up on the slow load's performance.I changed over to a higher speed combination - 36 grains WW760 and the same bullet - but heat-treated. This is, as you see, a full-power jacketed load under a HT cast bullet - but still within the rifle's capability.This load performed well, allowing me to reach out to the 671 yard target easily enough with the installed receiver sight and Lyman 17A front for the first time I tried it. Results were interesting but, so far, semi-inconclusive.Further testing is indicated but the 30 WCF is alive and well, ready to go when the snow melts off.Good evening,Forrest. Since this is a levergun topic I won't comment on the accuracy of my Savage Model 340.
What I consider accurate in a 30-30 lever action rifle would be about 3 MOA. Even with a good scope I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to group reliably on paper for money or put meat on the table at any range over 200 yrds. Since this is a cast bullet forum, I'm also assuming the use of cast bullets. I live in West Texas & many a shot on deer & coyotes have presented themselves beyond this range.
The few times I've taken the shot, I found it was a waste of powder, primer, lead, lube, & time.I think this is the most sensible response. Gentlemen;Why not load a long, heavy bullet over a load that gives, say, 17-1800 ft/sec in the typical 30 WCF?I have done this with the 40/65 on a modified Marlin 1895 at the Quigley Match and come up winner in the 'Lever Gun' class a couple times. My load was with the 350 grain SAECO 65640. Single load only as the rounds are way too long to run through the magazine.I took this idea and have begun loading my Marlin 336 for accuracy with a HT RCBS 30-180-SP. These are early days but the load should work once I do some research.Once this is in hand there in no reason at all that the load shouldn't perform as well as any other rifle that will shoot into about an inch and half or slightly more at 100 yards.Good evening,Forrest.
Longest shot I've done with a 30-30 was with my wife's Winchester 94 Pack rifle (18' barrel, half mag). I had a chance at a big whitetail doe in the middle of my in laws alfalfa field. There was no chance to stalk closer so I rested the rifle on top a fence post and dropped her with one shot.
Range was 225yards and ammo was a 170 gr. Remington Core-lok.edit to add: rifle has a 4x scope on it.
Here's a pic of it. I think the half magazine increases accuracy due to the lack of a barrel band affecting barrel harmonics.56679. I believe the true cause of the 30-30 being somewhat folklore limited to accurate long range bullet placement is the buckhorn sights and bead front.
They are great for putting on a deer at 50 to 150 yards when one walks out in front of the shooter but cover 9 1/2 inches of black target at 100 yards. I have my rear sight adjusted way up so as to sight it for 6 oclock hold and my 100 yards groups shrank in 1/2 the size easily. While I could change the sights, I really don't want to take the rifle out of its element as being a fast handling woods rifle. I have killed one deer at a distance of 210 yards as measured by a laser range finder. The load was 35 gr of Win 748 and a 170 gr core lock bullet.
![Sharps rear ladder sight Sharps rear ladder sight](http://www.skinnersights.com/images/BushPilotTDE.jpg?357)
I routinely shoot metallic Silhouettes at 200 yards using a 165 gr PB bullet and 15 gr of 2400 or the same bullet and 8 gr of Unique. Both loads will print 3 inch 10 shot groups from my two model 94 Winchesters from a bench rest. I have no trouble at all hitting any of the targets at that range except on dark days when my eye sight can not pick out the sights as well through my tang sight.
Who is shooting? That is the most important factor.That is always what it boils down to.3 shots on the upper left of that board is my 300 yard 3 shot group.Now that I use the stock sights, (which I prefer over other iron sights I've used,) I'm limited to 400 yards with reasonable accuracy.ballistic coefficient plays a big part in consistent one shot hits, that is why I like the Hornady FTX so much.
It is a shame I really can't afford them.:(Also, velocity plays a big part when I'm using the stock sights; they only have so much elevation.I'll learn how to cast well enough, (which is why I've registered,) to get some of my own bullets to hit as far. I was thinking the same thing, but then figured that they're the swaged ones I haven't messed with yet. Then again, and for the record, I strongly prefer cast in my.30-30s and most other calibers, this thread is about accuracy, and like has been said here many times, cast is NOT a disadvantage in the.30-30 at all, and if anything can be an advantage. So if someone chooses to do their testing with jacketed, I see it as a limited test that the rest of us should be looking at as a bottom rung that we should all be able to exceed. Not talking trash, but just in my experience, all three of my.30-30s are more accurate with cast than jacketed. Nice shooting Win94ae, can you comment on your rifle and loads a little?Sorry for the late reply.The rifle is setup the same now as when I bought it in 1983.
The only thing I may do differently is keep the barrel band screws the same tension; they'll loosen from time to time causing a change in harmonic vibration.I find the Audette Ladder Test to be the easiest and least costly method of load development; I'll usually find a sub-moa load within 10 shots. I've never found a jacketed bullet that didn't shoot sub-moa in this rifle. I hope I have as good of luck when I start casting, (probably July 26th when my molds are due.)I don't mess with seating depth, I'll set it for proper cycling through the action, then leave it at that.Thanks! Hi Win94ae, no problem on the reply.I was curious as to possible modifications to the rifle and any special components used to get the level of accuracy you have obtained.
There's a lot of misinformation regarding accuracy in lever actions and wanted to see if you used anything above and beyond to get the results you have.I'm wondering if the AE models can produce a higher level of accuracy opposed to the older models. Mine are of the regular type. It may seem like nit picking but it can mean a big difference downrange.When using the ladder method, do you use it at 100 yards or further for the 30-30? Thanks for your efforts.Sorry for the late reply.The rifle is setup the same now as when I bought it in 1983. The only thing I may do differently is keep the barrel band screws the same tension; they'll loosen from time to time causing a change in harmonic vibration.I find the Audette Ladder Test to be the easiest and least costly method of load development; I'll usually find a sub-moa load within 10 shots. I've never found a jacketed bullet that didn't shoot sub-moa in this rifle.
I hope I have as good of luck when I start casting, (probably July 26th when my molds are due.)I don't mess with seating depth, I'll set it for proper cycling through the action, then leave it at that.Thanks! When I was 25 years old I shot a 41/50 in sporting clays with my Rem M1100 Skeet 410; I got a 1/10 on the last station (Springing Teals @35+ yds) would I shoot this shotgun at pheasant at that time, heck no! (Way back then I knew better and I wish I could shoot that way now)Depends what you are shooting. At game with a 30-30 Win 150 to 175 yds; 300 to 400 yds at 2 liter pop bottles filled with H2O. Or whatever distance you can shoot at.WAY Too many cable shows showing long range shooting that are total BS!
I have hit,and killed deer out to 200 yards. I used 24'bbl 94 30-30 150 gr.reloads maxed out.In my more modern 24' bbl 94AE 7-30 waters I have taken deer,goats,pigs,and many escaped exotics(from neighbors ranch) at 300 yds.I have a Browning mod 92 20in. 357 mag that I have taken deer,foxes,rabbits,coyote,bob cat,raccoon,pigs,stray dogs,domestic cats,and rats out to 125 yards.I was raised on a ranch in west Texas where low life's dump their pets.There is no animal control to call.Dogs pack up,and drag down calves.Cats go wild,and kill game birds for fun which they do not eat.It's not fun,and no one liked having to do it.We couldn't afford not to.I had my first gun the year before pre-school.It was my'job' to kill varmints like Jackrabbits daily.10 jacks can eat as much grass in a day as 1 head of cattle.
During certain years I was paid.01 cent for 2 sets of ears at the feed store.The money came from the Cattleman's Assoc.I could only make money if I didn't miss.At a later date,I used the wagon to haul them back to the house whole to freeze them. We took them out to cut them into pieces to feed the dogs. Gents,Last April, I used my M94 Musket w/26' barrel and receiver sight on a 6' gong at a measured 350 yds- Standing position, leaning against a vehicle for stability- load was a cast 170 grain boolit w/gc over 10.0 gr Unique, Win LRP- a low velocity but accurate load- my observer used a spotting scope to walk my shots in to the gong, as I could not see the impacts in the alfalfa field (we were shooting ground squirrels)- 3 shots to walk me in to the gong-(rear sight all the way up) then he says 'you're on it!' I put 5 rounds in the mag tube and hit the gong with 4 of the 5- at that point I put the rifle back in the case and called it a success- I knew I couldn't keep it up any longer- 350 yds with old eyes and iron sights and a tiny gong is bad enough!The 30-30 will do the job accuracy wise in a good rifle, if you do yours- the key is, DO YOUR JOB!358wcf.
I'd go about 325yds. Well, after reading thru all of the threads, have decided that maybe the issue is shooting vs. Lobbing boolits or bullets.
With enough sight elevation and with minimal wind, lobbing a projectile a thousand yards is not a big deal. (A 22 LR will GO a mile but the elevation of the muzzle is steep for sure). Accuracy shooting at 1000 yards is another whole ball of wax, and for the gifted shooter, with young eyes, great wind doping qualities, and a bit of luck thrown in.
More power to them that can do such things, as I am not one of them.1Shirt! I have hit,and killed deer out to 200 yards. I used 24'bbl 94 30-30 150 gr.reloads maxed out.In my more modern 24' bbl 94AE 7-30 waters I have taken deer,goats,pigs,and many escaped exotics(from neighbors ranch) at 300 yds.I have a Browning mod 92 20in. 357 mag that I have taken deer,foxes,rabbits,coyote,bob cat,raccoon,pigs,stray dogs,domestic cats,and rats out to 125 yards.I was raised on a ranch in west Texas where low life's dump their pets.There is no animal control to call.Dogs pack up,and drag down calves.Cats go wild,and kill game birds for fun which they do not eat.It's not fun,and no one liked having to do it.We couldn't afford not to.I had my first gun the year before pre-school.It was my'job' to kill varmints like Jackrabbits daily.10 jacks can eat as much grass in a day as 1 head of cattle. During certain years I was paid.01 cent for 2 sets of ears at the feed store.The money came from the Cattleman's Assoc.I could only make money if I didn't miss.At a later date,I used the wagon to haul them back to the house whole to freeze them. We took them out to cut them into pieces to feed the dogs.10-4 brother.some of us know what you speak of.SL. I didn't real all 7 pages of this thread - but the.30-30 is on the same power level as 7.62x39 (AK47 round).
Works very well on hogs. We use 'em in 200 yard silhouette matches. Lever guns are less accurate than breach loaders that have a solid lock up (bolt actions, rolling blocks, falling blocks, etc.).A good lever gun should group about 2' at 200 yards. Average lever guns will group around 6' at 200 yards - varies with the load, the sight, the shooter and all the other variables.Buckhorn sight - good luck hitting the general area twice at 200 yardsTang and Receiver sights - should give you a nice tight group at 200 yards9 power scope with fine crosshairs - 2' groups at 200 yardsRed dot sight - good for that charging hog at 20 yards. One of my pet peeve myths.Just one thing snaketail. The 7.62 x 39mm falls way short of matching 30-30 energy.
Especially now with LeveRevolution powder to use. Lots of fans of the 7.62x39 like to think they have a semi auto 30-30. But that doesn't make it true.
Like 300 Blackout fans claiming 30-30 or 7.62x39 power. When they can shoot a 200 grain boolit at 2,100 fps. Or a 165gr FTX at 2,389 fps. They can come tell us how that's done. In the mean time. Fact is according to the math of people who claim 7.62 is equal to 30-30 power. That makes a 30-30 the equal to a 308 Win.
Since a 30-30 will shoot a 165gr as fast as a 308 will shoot a 200 gain bullet. That makes them equal, right. I have put trail dogs on more wounded deer that where shot with a thutty-thutty more than any other gun.They could get a lots of blood but no meat.Most were probably shot more than 150 yardsThat may be because the 30-30 is so common. Thus poor hunters have easy aces to them.Here in Illinois where we can only use shotguns, hand guns or MZ. Most hunters think a Forester slug is a 150 yard round when it is in reality a fifty yard round at best.
That is just ignorance and has no effect on the value of a 12 gage shotgun. Only the perceived effect of such tool. After all many people seam to think it's a good idea to drive a Toyota 90 mph down the road. Does that make a Toyota a bad car? One of the best threads of mental masturbation I've seen.A few rational and reasoned comments punctuated by a whole wheelbarrow load of manure.With iron sights most. 30-30 leverguns are no better than 3 moa rifles. Magic Gummy Bear Ammo doesn't change the basic facts.
That means 150 yards for clean kills on deer, 200 yards for anti-personnel, was typical for rural lawmen in the days before Evil Black Rifles. The late LTC Ellis Lea, USAID Office of Public Safety, who ran our training section in Latin America would agree.Read Ed Harris's article on the.30-30. One of the best threads of mental masturbation I've seen.A few rational and reasoned comments punctuated by a whole wheelbarrow load of manure.With iron sights most. 30-30 leverguns are no better than 3 moa rifles. Magic Gummy Bear Ammo doesn't change the basic facts. That means 150 yards for clean kills on deer, 200 yards for anti-personnel, was typical for rural lawmen in the days before Evil Black Rifles. The late LTC Ellis Lea, USAID Office of Public Safety, who ran our training section in Latin America would agree.Read Ed Harris's article on the.30-30.
One wheelbarrow load? My problem with this question is that the rifle was not specified only the cartridge. Now my own 30-30 I would have no qualms about shooting deer the same distances as with a.308 Win chambered rifle. This is MY 30-30 rifle:-a Muntjac Doe taken with it. Load was the Hornady 130 Grn Spire Point loaded to just over 2800 fps.some factory Winchester ammunition in the magazine.This is how she shoots if I do my part:-a three shot group I'll admit.in a slight load variation and yes I adjusted the scope the wrong way:( the adjustments are in German as it's a Schmidt & Bender scope and I don't read German so got the H&T mixed up.So remaining energy is going to be the limiting factor here but 300 yards should be no problem. Don't you agree?OK it's not quite your usual 30-30 rifle but it IS still a 30-30:mrgreen:. Interestingly, a friend of mine once had a 16' barreled Marlin in.30/30 that he loved for way back in the woods hunting where he knew shots would be short.
He shot a lot of deer with that old gun, and he shot it a lot, even at distances he never intended to shoot, really. However, one day he saw a really nice buck that was just a tad over 300 yds., and he'd been shooting at that distance a good bit lately, so he couldn't resist. Sure enough, he got that deer, but it ran 50-75 yds. After the shot despite being hit very well. On dressing it out, he found the bullet and it hadn't expanded much at all. Can't recall just which bullet it was, but most.30/30 bullets are pretty darn close in jacket thickness & performance, so I'd have to put the max.
Limit for the.30/30 on deer at 250. Those blunt bullets slow down pretty fast, and without speed, the bullets won't expand. At really long range on paper or steel, however, the only real limit is the shooter's skill.
If you've ever shot a.22 LR at ridiculous distances, you understand. It's amazing what some holdover can do, and how fast it can be guesstimated. The old.30/30 will always remain one of my favorites. My father bought a repossessed Marlin 336 at the local hardware store for $60 back in 70.It was for me. It was all I had.
It never let me down.I am very confident with that rifle.I learned to shoot it well.I remember he brought it home one night out of the blue, wrapped in the hardware store paper.Wow.my own deer rifle. I still remember the joy of that day 45 years ago.Things have change for me some over the years.The.308 win is my darling now.I was walking with my son today and looking at the the 600yd shooting range. The challenge is what you want it to be. FAsmus, I've almost always shot long distance in plowed fields or over water, so I can spot the misses. And yes, the misses far outnumber the hits, but it's amazing how rapidly one can at least threaten far off targets with slower, speed of sound type ctgs. I think that's at least part of what made me get a BPCR. My 1885 Browning is one of the most fun to shoot guns I have, and it's never fired a smokeless round in it.
One CAN, if he's crazy enough, learn to love the smell of sulphur! One never really knows what the limits are for anything unless and until he challenges 'common knowledge,' and finds the limits for himself. Sometimes 'common knowledge' isn't very common, but sometimes, it's not even 'knowledge' either. Funny how that works, ain't it?;^). Lets see soon I will be trying22wmr at 600 yards,.223 at 800 yards and.338 at 1200 yards nope none will be true lead bullets but the fun is seeing just how far I can throw a pill and hit something with authority. You need a certain amount of speed to go the distance and lead just doesn't start fast enough sometimes. Might try lead bullets one dayHow far with the 30-30 I think depends on barrel length, ability of shooter, wind, etc.
Me I think with lead I would stop at 250 yards but then again who knows I will have to think on this one. As some other things come into play like type of powder, charge weight, humidity maybe? Blackwater;B: I've almost always shot long distance in plowed fields or over water, so I can spot the misses. And yes, the misses far outnumber the hits, but it's amazing how rapidly one can at least threaten far off targets with slower, speed of sound type ctgs.F: I shoot several different 30 caliber rifles over long range (out to 835 yards) regularly. These are mostly bolt guns with receiver sights and Lyman 17A's up front. The cast bullet loads I shoot are pretty much all 2000 ft/sec or slower - or right in the good working range of the 30 WCF.B: I think that's at least part of what made me get a BPCR. My 1885 Browning is one of the most fun to shoot guns I have, and it's never fired a smokeless round in it.
One CAN, if he's crazy enough, learn to love the smell of sulphur! One never really knows what the limits are for anything unless and until he challenges 'common knowledge,' and finds the limits for himself.
Sometimes 'common knowledge' isn't very common, but sometimes, it's not even 'knowledge' either. Funny how that works, ain't it?F: I own several big-bore singleshots and have used them for many years at the Quigley and the similar 1000 yard Championship. I dislike the elaborate case-cleaning procedures required with black, so I gave up on it long ago.Forrest. A.30-30 levergun can be exceptionally accurate, particularly for short strings of fire, provided a little work is done to the junk hanging off of the barrel. I've never found the rear locking bolt to be an accuracy disadvantage for practical shooting. My Marlin.30-30 routinely turns in half inch, five shot groups at 100 yard from the bench with a 4X scope, at the high end of medium velocity with cast boolits, but it isn't by accident.
My.35 Remington is close behind. It won't keep ten at a time there, though, due to barrel heat. Many leverguns are severely disabled by forearm, band, and mag tube bind.Geari have no reason not to believe you but people spend thousands of dollars to get a long range bolt gun to do that. Gentlemen;The title of this tread is about shooting long range targets with the 30/30 Like out to 800+ yards with iron sights.
A good receiver or tang sight with perhaps a Lyman 17A or MVA spirit-level sight on the front.You pick the action: Bolt gun, single-shot - of various designs - lever as in Winchester, Marlin, Savage. Anything at all but NO jacketed loads need apply! This is the Cast Booit site after all.ForrestI've rediscovered the site, and noticed this thread is still active, and no one has tried any more medium range shots with cast bullets. Until now.I had just set-up this rifle with this new front sight, to be able to shoot at 100 yards on my first sight setting.
The furthest I had shot it with this setup was 350 yards; one shot, one kill.Since I haven't tried 500 yards yet, I had to take a sighting shot to see where my highest notch would place me.was hoping that the sight setup would get me at least to 500 yards, but it looks to be more like 450 yards. It really starts dropping when shooting over 250 yards, (what I usually shoot at.)It also looks to have entered the transonic range of velocity, as the bullet trace isn't present for the last 75 or so yards.I'm going to try again tomorrow to see if I can hit the spot with one shot.
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